Posts by Hobo Ken

421

70 years = 607?

by allelsefails in

70 years of captivity?.

i myself have always believed that when archaeology disagreed with the bible the bible must be right.

that is how i dismissed the idea that jerusalem was destroyed in 586/587 bce.

Hobo Ken

The

Watchtower has abandoned the date of 1935 for the closing of the sealing of the annointed doctrine , reason:-

There are no scriptures to back it up.

The watchtower Society has admitted that 1918 is now "an interesting possibilty" in relation to their heavenly resurrection doctrine, reason:-

There are no scriptures to back it up.

The watchtower Society is mentioning the 1914 doctrine less and less. My local co-ordinator admitted to me that it is NOT a Bible doctrine. The reason?

He could not prove that the Bible teaches what is essentially a series of mathematical formulae and leaps of logic to arrive at the year 1914.

I wonder of the society were to eventually bin this doctrine how people like scholar would feel?

These people want and need to believe , which they are entirely welcome to do if they wish.

In a few short years those Gentile times will have ended ONE HUNDRED YEARS AGO!!!!!!!!!

THIS IS GOING TO A HUGE EMBARRASSMENT TO THE WATCHTOWER!!!!!!!

Hobo

421

70 years = 607?

by allelsefails in

70 years of captivity?.

i myself have always believed that when archaeology disagreed with the bible the bible must be right.

that is how i dismissed the idea that jerusalem was destroyed in 586/587 bce.

Hobo Ken

I have only just found this thread. It is first of all very impressive how you guys on here have demolished the falacious arguments (not reasonings) of the one known as scholar.

It seems from reading the all the posts that this has been done before.......

I cannot fail to be impressed also by Scholar's dogged determination to hold to what he believes to be true.

He of course has a vested interest in being a Watchtower apologist. He is defending his whole life course we are not.

He wrongly states several times that some dates give us a problem. Wrong again! These dates don't give us a problem because we already have figured that they are worthless along with much of what the WTS teaches their people...... That's why we left...

The dates the Watchtower uses to support it's unique take on neo Babylonian history are not supported by any evidence that I have encountered.

I have checked out the British museum and every library and book shop I am ever in. Books on world history, Jewish history, the history of the City of Jerusalem, the history of Babylon, .....you get the idea......and the one date I'm looking for is the date of 607 for the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple by king Neb. I have yet to find it. They all say 586/7.

Do the Watchtower society and their apologists think that the whole world has formed a united conspiracy against them to rob them of their unique belief in the year 1914???

Aside from the Witnesses who else still believes that the 2520 year formula is a solid piece of Bible doctrine?

I know of no one.

Was it a witness teaching from the start?

No it was given to C.T. Russel by Nelson Barbour so it was not even "reaveled truth" from Jehovah through his "channel".

Still want to believe in it Scholar?

You are welcome to if you wish but in a cult you will defend anything you WANT OR NEED to believe in.

I noticed that Scholar admitted there was in fact some "wiggle room" because Chronology is not an exact science.....

How about these two quotes below? Do they allow for much room to "wiggle"? Or are they arrogant dogmatic statements which are sensational in their words but devoid of any proof or substance?

*** w72 12/15 p. 748 par. 5 The Time to Decide in the Name of Which God to Walk ***

By the end of the Gentile Times about October 4, 1914, eight nations and empires of Christendom, along with Japan, were fighting one another.

*** re chap. 18 p. 105 par. 5 Earthquakes in the Lord's Day ***

5 Thus, when C. T. Russell appeared for morning worship with the Brooklyn, New York, Bethel family on the morning of October 2, 1914, he made the dramatic announcement: "The Gentile Times have ended; their kings have had their day.

So the Watchtower have it down to a day of the week in the month of october 1914......that sure is impressive....all based on events 2520 years before......wow.....

Anyone else find it a bit disturbing when someone is talking about themselves in the 3rd person? e.g. "Scholar has defeated Alanf many times"

Wish I could have got on board with this one from the start.

Keep up the good work guys and girls.

Matt.

23

Hello all =)

by JudgeRutherfords in

jw
friends

Hobo Ken

Welcome Judge......Let us school you on the ways of the dark side....

Hobo

116

Show-down with elder at the kingdom hall

by Hobo Ken in

jw
friends

this is podcast 8 in the death or obedience series.. this was recorded on christmas day 2008.. after our last visit from two local elders my wife felt she could no longer be known as a jehovah's witness and had chosen to disassociate herself in november 2008.. we had been on a family holiday and had returned to find that one of the local elders who had visited us had warned off my mother-in-law from having anything to do with my wife - her daughter.

he also made false statements about one of my children.. i decided to confront this elder at the kingdom hall.

this podcast is the recording of our conversation.. notice how he denies making such statements to my mother-in-law and falsely accuses me of teaching her beliefs contrary to jehovah's witnesses.. i ask whether it's a sin to no longer be a jehovah's witness?.

Hobo Ken

Bttt

36

DF or DA what do you think the difference is?

by Rosey in

jw
friends

i would like to know from everyone first of all what they think the difference is between a df'd person and a da'd person.. i would also like to know what everyone thinks that jw's think is the difference between a df'd and da'd person.. personally i am df'd.

i was df'd 10 years ago almost and did not argue it at all as i had no desire to continue as a jw anyway.

before being df'd i was always under the impression that if a person da'd themselves it almost always meant they were " apostate" and that there was no way a jw should have any contact with them.

Hobo Ken

>sweetpea

Well said.

Matt

36

DF or DA what do you think the difference is?

by Rosey in

jw
friends

i would like to know from everyone first of all what they think the difference is between a df'd person and a da'd person.. i would also like to know what everyone thinks that jw's think is the difference between a df'd and da'd person.. personally i am df'd.

i was df'd 10 years ago almost and did not argue it at all as i had no desire to continue as a jw anyway.

before being df'd i was always under the impression that if a person da'd themselves it almost always meant they were " apostate" and that there was no way a jw should have any contact with them.

Hobo Ken

>Besty

That was the passage of scripture I left them with to read in their own time at the end of my Judicial appeal.

I also like the fact it mentions a "faithful steward" who would only be such if he did not act in the way the scriptures warn against in this verse. This is exactly the judgemental way the Watchtower and it's henchmen behave in complete oppostion to Paul's words.

Faithful and Discreet......I think not.

Matt.

36

DF or DA what do you think the difference is?

by Rosey in

jw
friends

i would like to know from everyone first of all what they think the difference is between a df'd person and a da'd person.. i would also like to know what everyone thinks that jw's think is the difference between a df'd and da'd person.. personally i am df'd.

i was df'd 10 years ago almost and did not argue it at all as i had no desire to continue as a jw anyway.

before being df'd i was always under the impression that if a person da'd themselves it almost always meant they were " apostate" and that there was no way a jw should have any contact with them.

Hobo Ken

>Rosey

Good comeback to Reniaa there. As usual a post without a punch (and off topic) She seems to think that both groups could get back in as both are out in the spiritual darkness so therefore it does not really matter how we categorise ourselves......She like many Witnesses does not even begin to contemplate a life outside of "God's Org." To an extent she is right , both groups are no longer JW's so what does it matter how they got there?

Rosey as far as I'm concerned anyone who has left the wts is ok in my book whether they have been kicked out or left of their own accord.

Of course there are things which the Bible says are wrong but the Bible also says we are not placed to judge others as we are all sinners.

This is a good passage of scripture.(1 Corinthians 4:2-5) . . .Besides, in this case, what is looked for in stewards is for a man to be found faithful. 3 Now to me it is a very trivial matter that I should be examined by YOU or by a human tribunal. Even I do not examine myself. 4 For I am not conscious of anything against myself. Yet by this I am not proved righteous, but he that examines me is Jehovah. 5 Hence do not judge anything before the due time, until the Lord comes, who will both bring the secret things of darkness to light and make the counsels of the hearts manifest, and then each one will have his praise come to him from God.

Here the so called "judicial committe" is laid bare by the scriptures and we are counselled not to Judge until the Lord arrives because he is the only competent Judge.

I'm absolutely no different from anyone else that's left. Because I choose a Christian course does not make me better than those who have not, in fact it should make one more humble and realistic about all of our failings.

I have many friends of which I count you among who are exJW and they are all in very different circumstances but all fellow humans.

The organisation seeks to control and enforce punishment on it's members by disfellowshipping, even for things nowhere mentioned in the Bible. How can that be love for your neighbour?

There is not a day goes by that I'm not glad I left this organisation.

Matt.

36

DF or DA what do you think the difference is?

by Rosey in

jw
friends

i would like to know from everyone first of all what they think the difference is between a df'd person and a da'd person.. i would also like to know what everyone thinks that jw's think is the difference between a df'd and da'd person.. personally i am df'd.

i was df'd 10 years ago almost and did not argue it at all as i had no desire to continue as a jw anyway.

before being df'd i was always under the impression that if a person da'd themselves it almost always meant they were " apostate" and that there was no way a jw should have any contact with them.

Hobo Ken

How about this for the difference between DF'd and D.A.'d,:-

DA'd person has made a concientious and informed decision to leave the wts whatever the reasons.

D'F'd person could be one who has been DF'd for non Biblcal "sins" like apostasy etc but it's usually the case that it's some act like adultery or drunken-ness.

How about this for an extra dimension though, anyone seen the 6th sense? Bruce Willis's character is dead but does not realise it. When he eventually gets hit with the news it's a complete shock.

I believe that there are a significant number of people who were disfellowshipped over the years that don't realise what they have actually left behind. In other words they still think it was the "truth" and God's big old organisation on earth. Perhaps they've had no contact with any "apostates".

Imagine the shock when they are told or find out what it really is they left behind.

I make a point of finding those who are in this position locally and making sure they know the score (if they didn't already).

A disassociated person to some degree or another has recognized that they want no part of the Watchtower Society.

Matt.

116

Show-down with elder at the kingdom hall

by Hobo Ken in

jw
friends

this is podcast 8 in the death or obedience series.. this was recorded on christmas day 2008.. after our last visit from two local elders my wife felt she could no longer be known as a jehovah's witness and had chosen to disassociate herself in november 2008.. we had been on a family holiday and had returned to find that one of the local elders who had visited us had warned off my mother-in-law from having anything to do with my wife - her daughter.

he also made false statements about one of my children.. i decided to confront this elder at the kingdom hall.

this podcast is the recording of our conversation.. notice how he denies making such statements to my mother-in-law and falsely accuses me of teaching her beliefs contrary to jehovah's witnesses.. i ask whether it's a sin to no longer be a jehovah's witness?.

Hobo Ken

>Flipper

Ty.

>I knowall

Russel was a deluded, power crazed ,self important blasphemer. What he had to say about ex members was laughable.

The realisation that you have been conned, for pehaps in some cases, all of your life by the Watchtower Society is what drives many ex members to take action against what they used to hold dear.

I personally would like this organisation to completely disintegrate. I work hard at what I do now to get people out and prevent others from joining. If even one person in each category took positive action then I will have been succesful in my course.

So what if they don't like it and attach some labels to me I don't care what they think of me .

It was liberating to tell Ronnie Hunter what I thought of him and that I was no longer going to follow his fallacious organisation but that he was welcome to do so for the rest of his life.

Matt.

116

Show-down with elder at the kingdom hall

by Hobo Ken in

jw
friends

this is podcast 8 in the death or obedience series.. this was recorded on christmas day 2008.. after our last visit from two local elders my wife felt she could no longer be known as a jehovah's witness and had chosen to disassociate herself in november 2008.. we had been on a family holiday and had returned to find that one of the local elders who had visited us had warned off my mother-in-law from having anything to do with my wife - her daughter.

he also made false statements about one of my children.. i decided to confront this elder at the kingdom hall.

this podcast is the recording of our conversation.. notice how he denies making such statements to my mother-in-law and falsely accuses me of teaching her beliefs contrary to jehovah's witnesses.. i ask whether it's a sin to no longer be a jehovah's witness?.

Hobo Ken

>Judge

It's weird Judge that is exactly the same experience as I had. For years my old man refused to accept the "new light" because he wanted to believe the old light more. Now he doesn't teach it in the min but said he still beleives it!!! Amazing . Technically he is an apostate....

I had a discusion with both my folks recently in which I said we were all guilty of false prophecy and teaching lies to people regarding the generation ,whether unintentional or not. There is no excuse.

The 1914 dogma is an embarrassing doctrine and hangs like a millstone round the WtS's necks. The problem the G.B. have is they have so heavily pushed it and in fact built thier whole organisation on it that it is going to take a genius peice of P.R./political spin to back away from it.

>Boyzone

It's great that happned for you although the mind has to be right and I think you do have to be a smart person and receptive to the Holy Spirit for it to happen.

This is an interesting scpiture which I think pertains to this scenario:

(2 Thessalonians 2:9-12) 9 But the lawless one's presence is according to the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and portents 10 and with every unrighteous deception for those who are perishing, as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth that they might be saved. 11 So that is why God lets an operation of error go to them, that they may get to believing the lie, 12 in order that they all may be judged because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness.

There are some for whom these verses apply in the JW org. They believe lies as taught by the Watchtower and refuse to believe the actual truth as found in scripture almost like as the above verse said they take pleasure in believing bad lies.

I have shown close family members verses like Rev 19.1 which plainly says the great crowd are in heaven NOT EARTH( as the wts teach) and they actually don't accept it. I've seen the prophecy in this verse in operation.

Or my brother Paul during podcast 7 "I know what you say about the society becoming an NGO, but I just don't accept it "

Don't accept what Paul? that they didn't do it or that you don't want to accept that your beloved organisation could do such a thing?

Boyzone you were receptive but some will believe this crap until their dying day. Password believes that some people have to be "broken" before they will change their mind. Who knows with Ron and his number 2 , Paul?

Matt.